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Former New Englander Giancarlo Esposito talks strength, hope and finding our inner superheroes
Ahead of Boston’s Fan Expo this weekend, Esposito talks about “Breaking Bad,” “The Boys,” Marvel — and how he made it to the top of his game.
It’s hard to imagine a time when Giancarlo Esposito didn’t play your favorite bad guy.
Gus Fring on “Breaking Bad,” Stan Edgar on “The Boys,” Sidewinder in Marvel’s “Captain America: Brave New World,” Moff Gideon on “The Mandalorian,” to name a few.
But there was a time — still very fresh in the former New Englander’s mind — when he was struggling.
Before he broke through on “Breaking Bad” in 2009, Esposito was at a low point.
Living in Connecticut, the father of four kids, he says he considered hiring a hitman to kill him so his family could have insurance money.
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“I did think that may be a way out,” the Emmy nominee told me in our recent phone interview. “I was well-insured. Things dried up — I went bankrupt again. That was embarrassing and shameful.”
“My mother had a hard time putting food on the table. That was hard to be hungry, to eat franks and beans and grits with ketchup. I didn’t want my kids to do that. But I wasn’t thinking: ‘How are they going to survive emotionally? Having that stigma of suicide on them?'”
“In one way, there’s that survival attitude of a warrior who has to sacrifice himself,” he said. But eventually, he realized, if “I could take care of me, I’d put myself in a position where I could be the true hero who lives, who pulls them out, too.”
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How’s this for full-circle:
The day the award-winning actor/director/producer tell me this story, he’d been nominated for an Emmy, his sixth nod, for his work as the unflinching Stan Edgar on Amazon’s hit “The Boys.”
Esposito’s story is pure inspiration. And he’s now an inspirational speaker, bringing his message of hope and hard work everywhere from colleges to comic conventions.
So while he’ll sign and meet fans at Fan Expo Boston, Aug. 8-10 at Boston’s Convention & Exposition Center, if you need your spirit raised, you might want to check out his Q&A at 2:45 Aug. 10.
“One of my favorite things to do at these cons is my Q&A. I think the expectation is: actors answer questions about their shows — which I do. But people don’t expect someone to empower them,” Esposito, 67, tells me.
“The wonder, enchantment and joy that I see around me when I go to cons — i.e. people dressing up as their favorite characters — I explain that this does something to them. It puts them in a playful, unjaded mindset. My Q&A’s inspire people to succeed, to be happy, to have fun, to enjoy life.”
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I can only imagine how inspiring his Q&A will be. In our interview, he said things that popped, and had me scrambling to underline poignant quotes.
For example, when I ask Esposito about starring in so many films and shows simultaneously (he’s got nine upcoming projects, according to his IMBD):
“There’s a place for you to shine if you understand your lane, and look not at the width of the lane, but straight down the track. Put that pedal to the metal. There’s mileage there.”
I ask what he loves about “The Boys”:
“It’s a show about superheroes with human emotions. I feel like we’re all superheroes. We’re living on a mundane human guitar string, we haven’t yet moved up to the higher note of the violin string. I feel like if we only realized that we have superhuman powers, then we would be different people.”
Unlike his characters, the Critics Choice and NAACP Image Award winner laughs often, jokes easily, talks quickly when he’s impassioned — and he’s often impassioned.
Born in Denmark to a carpenter/stagehand father from Italy, and an African-American opera singer from Alabama, Esposito grew up largely in New York. He first broke bad on soap operas in the ’80s. But it wasn’t until “Breaking Bad” in 2009 that he truly arrived, with a niche expertise as the chilling, complex bad guy.
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“I love the bad guy, the nefarious guy. He’s the exciting character in the piece,” Esposito tells me. “He’s the antihero no one listened to, so he’s going to take what he thinks is his, because no one listened to his brilliant plan. That’s the way I equate some of my nefarious characters.”
I called the former New Englander while he was in Florida visiting family to go deep on Gus Fring, Stan Edgar, Sidewinder, finding the will to succeed, and the pros of cons.
Boston.com: You’ll be here soon at Fan Expo Boston for three days.
Giancarlo Esposito: I’m always excited to come to Boston. I have great friends up there. My godson is up in Boston with his wife. I have friends in Cohasset.
That’s awesome. So what do most people approach you for at conventions like this? You must get a whole spectrum.
Precisely. From “The Mandalorian” to “Breaking Bad” to “Better Call Saul” to “Dear White People,” “Godfather of Harlem” to “The Boys” and now “Captain America 4” — I get approached for all of those.
It’s really lovely to be around the fans. I never know what they’ll approach me with. They might say, “You have something I want,” the famous Moff Gideon line. Or they want me to say [in deep Gus Fring voice] “You are done. Fired.”
[laughs]
Or they ask: “Would you hit me with a Darksaber?” People come up with two sabers and want a saber fight.
Amazing.
It’s all about the wonder, enchantment, and joy. That’s what cons are about. In my Q&A, I tell people if they could walk out of these doors and take this [mindset] and apply it to their lives, they could be happier and more complete.
That’s a beautiful way to look at these events, as embracing an inner-childhood passion.
I joke and say I’m 10 years old, because the power of the mind is immeasurable. I meet people younger than me who refer to themselves as “old.” I never use that language about myself. I’m constantly saying, “I’m still a kid.” There’s merit to that. It allows me to feel that childlike wonder, to still feel young. Every day we’re getting older, but a mindset of wonder is the way to reverse it.
I love that. Your Q&As sound so inspiring. But before “Breaking Bad,” you were at a low point.
I was. This business can take you on a rollercoaster ride. Before I was married and had children, responsibilities were fewer. It was just me. I could eat brown rice and beans, bicycle to the theater and go home.
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By the time I had four children, I had to attract larger roles. I had to make a certain amount to take care of my family. That becomes a pressure — but also an invitation. An invitation to see your worth and value.
You said a book helped you change your mindset.
A neighbor gave me “Who Moved My Cheese.“ I went, “Why are you giving me a book about a mouse chasing cheese? I need to pay the mortgage.” [laughs]
[laughs] Right.
He said, “Just read it.” And it gave me hope. It took time, but I pulled myself out. The book is really a parable about the hunter-gatherer male who has to make a change. You’ve got to recreate yourself.
For me to go back to that time (around) 2009 — it’s still very fresh for me. And that’s part of my message to anyone I speak to.
Did getting “Breaking Bad” around that time also help change your mindset?
You get reprieves in life. I got a reprieve. I got “Breaking Bad.” People started to notice me. I got a contract there. That was my reprieve.
But it was a guest spot — it wasn’t solving my problems. [laughs] I did two guest spots at the end of the second season. Then they offered me a contract for the next season. I had to say no because it would be another year before that season started. I was afraid I couldn’t do anything else in the meantime.
I was like, “Guys, let’s just put it all on the table. When you’re back in the writers’ room next season, if you want me, call me. Then I’ll become a season player.” I honored my word when they came back.
Fring became a major character.
I talked to Vince because I wanted to play a certain kind of character. Is this guy going to be like all the other bad guys? Or is he going to be someone who has legs? Someone who can challenge Walter? If it’s bad guy of the week, I don’t want it. If it’s bad guy of the month or the year, okay, we can talk. [laughs]
[laughs] Right.
That’s where the conversation started to deepen. The whole reason I took the job was a stage direction Vince wrote that described Gustavo Fring as “hiding in plain sight.” And I was intrigued.
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I started talking to Vince about the masks we wear. This guy fastidiously cleans the chicken frier — it’s not just about the money. It’s just not just about the dope. He’s impeccable in his morality. The meth is just a product, but he thinks highly of his product, and he makes the best product.
How much of Fring was the writing, and how much was what you brought to him?
Every week they wrote stronger attitudes that I was already showing them. As I say to Vince, the writing inspired me, and what I was doing inspired you. It was a perfect combination. We all were intrigued. You couldn’t change any of the lines because the lines were perfect. But I realized I could control the space between the lines.
That’s a big part of what made Fring so interesting — those pauses, that straight face, the point-blank stare in someone’s face, the silent polishing of his glasses between the lines.
When you really you listen to people face to face, they get a little uncomfortable because you’re giving them all of your attention. No one does that anymore.
Right.
So it pulled me out. That dedication in creating the character, that thoughtfulness — finally asking for what I was really worth– — allowed me to pull myself out of this terrible bankruptcy. But the key was for me to create my own work. I thought: “Vince took this show to every single network, and no one wanted it. That’s an example.” I thought, “You’ve got to think about the stories you want to tell. What kind of characters you want to play? Talk to writers. Start developing. Read books and option stories. Produce.” That’s when I started doing all that.
You mentioned “Better Call Saul” earlier. How did that happen? They called and asked you to come back?
They asked and I was slow to answer. I thought, I gotta have a conversation with Vince. Casting was like “Eh, this guy again.”
[laughs]
[laughs] I was very polite about it. I said, “Vince, what’s the deal?” Because what I wanted and what we did in “Better Call Saul” is different. I wanted to see Gus’s family. I wanted to see him in a different light completely. Vince and I talked for a long time about how what we don’t know about Gus is the edge, the mystery.
Don’t show the shark.
Yeah! We agreed on little hints. I had to remind myself: “Better Call Saul” is about Saul! [laughs]
[laughs] True. And I have to ask about “The Boys.” That show is brilliant. There’s nothing else on TV like it. I was so happy to see you come on board as Stan Edgar, who is not unlike Fring. Did they approach you, or were you a fan?
Oh my gosh, Lauren, we’d have to be on the phone for hours on this one, but I’ll tell you. So I’m in Toronto, doing “Jett.” I come out of the costume fitting, turn a corner, I run into [“Boys” showrunner/writer/creator] Eric Kripke, who I adore.
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I was like, “Eric! What are you doing here?” He’s like “I’m doing this show; Seth Rogen is producing it with me. It’s called ‘The Boys.’” I say, “Eric, wait a minute. I did a Comic Con in Australia and this guy Darick Robertson told me a story — it sounds like this. He’s like, “That’s what this is!”
No way.
I swear to god. Four years before Toronto, I’d said, “Darick, this is a winner. This is a TV show.” He had nothing then. So that’s a little connection.
So fast-forward: Eric takes three steps back, crosses his arms, puts his hand on his chin, and he looks me up and down. I start laughing. I said, “Eric, I know what you’re thinking.” He said, “If you know, would you?” I said, “Eric, of course, I would, I love you!”
What intrigues you about Stan Edgar?
He’s hyper-intelligent, companyman to a T. Underneath that companyman, he’s grown to be a man out for himself. He’s extremely manipulative, but he’s smart and he knows what people need. I love that he’s not afraid of Homelander. Everyone’s afraid of this f—ing guy. Stan Edgar knows what he needs —a father-figure, someone to stand up to him. I love that he does it in a non-bullying way. Homelander’s a bully. Stan Edgar’s not.
I really love that he doesn’t give a damn. “If you want to laser me, laser me, but you really need to be told that you’re acting like an adolescent.” He gives him the whole speech. “This is not a superhero company. This is a pharmaceutical company.”
Yes. That was such an amazing speech, and an eye-opening way to look at the premise of the show. What do you like about the show in general?
It’s all cloaked underneath doing good, yet the show is so political — another thing I love about the show. It ties in politics in a very satirical way, and it’s blood and guts and all that stuff. Isn’t our world the same?
That’s good. And I love that you played Sidewinder in the new Captain America. I wasn’t expecting that.
I’ve been wanting to be in Marvel for a while, and fan-casting put me there. I kept telling people at cons if they just keep writing Marvel, Marvel listens to all of that.
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Finally, they were retooling Captain America, Marvel called and said, “Will you come?” I said, “What is it?” They said, “We’re not quite sure yet.” And I said, “Well, that’s right up my alley.”
Interview has been edited and condensed. Lauren Daley can be reached at [email protected]. She tweets @laurendaley1, and Instagram at @laurendaley1. Read more stories on Facebook here.
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