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‘Joe always thinks he’s doing the right thing’: Caroline Kepnes on writing America’s favorite killer
The final season of Netflix’s “You” hit No. 1. It’s time to read (or reread) the New England-centric books.
I’m a mystery-thriller diehard. Add humor, and I love it more. But I hit the red-eye phase of the “keeps getting better” meme when there are key scenes in Braintree and Coffee Coolatta references.
Centerville native Caroline Kepnes’s “You” series has it all.
With the fifth and final season of Netflix’s adaptation of “You” out now, and in the platform’s Top 10 globally for the last four weeks, I cannot recommend a better way to kick off beach-reading season than with a book series to read or reread.
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If you only know the Netflix series, you’re in for a treat: the show strays wildly from the books, especially seasons 3-5, so this will be new for you.
Kepnes’s novels about Joe Goldberg — a witty, damaged, gaslighting, darkly hilarious book-loving serial killer with women, books, or murder on his mind — read like “Dexter” meets Amazon’s “The Boys.” They are darkly funny, at times graphic, full of sex and twisted humor, and packed with New England.
Over the course of Kepnes’s four Joe books — “You,” “Hidden Bodies,” “You Love Me,” and “For You and Only You” — we see Joe take classes at Harvard, attempt murder in Braintree, and obsess over a Nantucket native.
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He’s rushed to the ER at Fall River’s Charlton Memorial, commits murder in Little Compton, R.I., tracks someone to Seekonk, plots revenge in Foster, R.I. commits murder on the Cape, dines on Greek fare on Thayer Street in Providence, follows a woman to Connecticut, and orders many a Dunkin’.
Kepnes’ writing is as razor-sharp and witty as her plots are twisted and deranged.
Born in Hyannis and raised in Centerville, the Barnstable High School ‘95 and Brown University ‘98 alum, Kepnes, 48, is a former journalist and TV writer. She also has a locally set standalone novel, “Providence” (2018).
Next up: a short story in “The End of the World As We Know It: New Tales of Stephen King’s The Stand” out Aug. 19.
Her short story, “The Bad Friend,” was selected for the “Best American Mystery and Suspense 2025” and is slated for a fall release.
As her five-season Netflix run rolls to a close, I called Kepnes at her family’s Centerville home to go in-depth on all things “You,” Penn Badgley, “7th Heaven,” Netflix, Harvard, and creating a charming killer.
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Interview has been edited and condensed.
You must be thrilled “You” ran five seasons. It hit No. 1 on Netflix. How are you feeling as it wraps?
I’m very emotional. I’m so grateful. You never think, when they’re writing the script, it will make it to TV. If it makes it, you never think people will watch — and you never think five seasons. It’s been a life-altering experience.
The first season follows your first book pretty closely. The later seasons really stray. Did you work on the show?
The first season, I was really involved; I wrote an episode. By the second season, I’d started a “You” novel and felt I’d be a problem in the writers’ room, getting mixed up between the new book and the show.
The cast was stacked: Penn Badgley as Joe. Over the seasons, you had John Stamos, Greg Kinnear, Jenna Ortega.
It was one after the other. Anna Camp. Victoria Pedretti was phenomenal as Love. [Co-showrunners] Sera Gamble and Greg Berlanti were on it. And David Rappaport, the director of casting, was just phenomenal.
What did you think of the casting of Joe? He’s the first-person narrator. We’re in his head as readers, and you’re in his head as the writer.
Oh, god. It was scary at first. But I remember seeing this first little video they sent, and I was like: chills. Yes. This is it.
It’s about his voice, his intensity — casting matters so much. You have to believe someone is both caring and dangerous. His acting — the sort of scene where he’s standing and watching someone, and we’re listening to his thoughts — he’s really good at that. And he nailed the voiceover. Voiceover is tricky. I’m a “Sex and the City” obsessive, and voiceover there works. But when voiceover doesn’t work, it’s like: “Noooooo.”
[laughs] True. You were writing books three and four during this show’s run. Did Badgley’s portrayal influence how you wrote Joe?
After two books, I had my relationship with Joe. “You” published in 2014; I’d been writing Joe since 2013. By the time they were casting [around 2018], it’s almost like nothing was really going to affect my writing.
Do you remember where you were when you found out it was going to Netflix?
Vividly. I was in Albertsons, a grocery store in L.A., in the frozen food aisle. I got a call, and ran away from the cart, not knowing what to do with myself. [laughs] I was in a panic because I had to drive, and I was like, “I’m gonna have an accident.” I didn’t. [laughs]
[laughs] That’s good. So tell me a bit about you.
I grew up on the Cape, I’m a townie. I went to Barnstable Public Schools. Had the world’s best teachers — I wouldn’t be a writer without their encouragement.
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I was a California dreamer as a kid, writing love letters to Brian Austin Green, telling him I was moving to L.A. to be an actress when I was like, 12. [laughs]. I loved New Kids on the Block. I was a huge Blockhead.
Senior year at Brown, I was directing a play on campus and was so consumed with it, I forgot to get a job. I forgot I was graduating. I was like: “I’m a director.” I went home to the Cape, like: “…Oh, I’m actually not a theater director.” My parents are like, “What the f—?”
[laughs]
[laughs] I applied for a job at a law firm in Providence, found the apartment, the car, woke up the day that I was supposed to go in, and called the law firm: “I’m actually not going to come in today.” They’re like, “Are you sick?” I’m like, “No, I’m just not going to take the job.“ I told my parents I wanted to go to New York. Again, they were like, “What. The. F—.”
[laughs] Right.
I went to New York around 2000. I did background work on TV, got my big break at Tiger Beat, did odd-jobs. I remember going to a temp agency with my resume — “Winner of a fiction contest, director of a play” — and the woman with a red pen crossing it all out, like: “Do you know Excel? Do you have pantyhose?” I’m like, “No and no.”
You eventually got a job at Entertainment Weekly writing about TV.
After two years of that, you either go deeper or leave. I wanted to go to California, so I left and started all over again in L.A. I eventually wrote a couple episodes of “7th Heaven,” which was a thrill. People say: “What? ‘7th Heaven’?” But it’s like Joe says on the first page: “You’re so clean, you’re dirty.’ And I love language — they spoke in such a particular cadence on that show. I love speech patterns.
That’s interesting because Joe’s voice is so distinct. He’s got that Holden Caulfield-esque speech pattern.
Oh, yeah. I was a big fan of “The Catcher in the Rye.” And “American Psycho.” I wrote that first chapter so many times. I knew it wouldn’t work if I didn’t believe every word.
How did Joe’s voice come to you?
So my dad got sick. I had this period of taking care of my dad, doctors all the time. It came from that. My dad had terminal cancer and going to bed at night when you’re quote-unquote battling something you know is going to win is such a mind-f—.
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It came largely from this feeling that Joe was always going to win, the same way cancer was always going to beat my dad. A cancer cell is, by nature, doing what cancer does. In that way, I thought: Joe is just doing what he does. He really believes that by controlling someone, he’s caring for them.
Wow, that’s interesting. And what sparked the storyline?
Above all, I think it came from wanting to make my mother laugh. I’d send chapters and my mom and aunts were like, “Oh my God. This is so fun. This is so sick.” Just hearing my mom laugh, when I kind of thought she’d never laugh again, was a very emotional thing.
I bet.
My guiding principle is Joe always thinks he’s doing the right thing. I think of him as a veterinarian, the way they talk about sparing the animal, putting it down. I thought: What if he thinks that way about people? He believes some people need to be put out of their misery. That fear factor really got me going.
Also, I’ve always had a love-hate relationship with social media. To grow up in the ‘80s and be told to be a person of mystery, don’t talk to strangers, and suddenly be in this world where people are literally “following” each other freaked me out. I’d always thought of “following” as a bad thing — you’re supposed to be a leader.
I thought, what if social media was around when I was in my early 20s, like Beck [the woman Joe obsesses over in book 1]? Thinking of having social media at that age gave me the chills. That was where the horror element came from.
When you started writing these novels, were you thinking of adaptation?
That’s always the fantasy. You never actually think the fantasy will become the reality. I’m a TV junkie. I wrote two novels that were never published. By the time I wrote “You,” I thought, I’m gonna be myself. I’m gonna make pop-culture references. It’s gonna be weird. It’s gonna be fast-moving like TV. I’m absolutely influenced by all the TV I’ve consumed and obsessed over.
So I have to ask about all the New England scenes. You have an interesting mix of real and fictional spots in towns.
I always go through that debate: should I follow the facts, or lean into the fiction? I spent a lot of time at Mass General when my dad was sick, and there used to be this Finagle a Bagel where I sat so many times. I used it in Book 4, and the copy editor was like, “Actually, that’s not there anymore.” I’m like, Nooo!
[laughs] You left it in.
[laughs] I get attached to places.
So what brought you to Harvard for book four?
Book 3 ended with Joe in Florida. I started writing him in Florida for book 4, but it didn’t feel right. I love Boston, I love Cape Cod. So I was like “F— yeah, I’m gonna bring him here.” So there’s a selfish element there. [laughs] Also, I wanted him to be a student. I thought Harvard was the perfect place for Joe because of his insecurities. It’s the high-brow, low-brow Boston contradictions: all the education, and then all the fun, “wicked this, wicked that.”
Right, that “Good Will Hunting” aspect. Will you write book five?
I did write a prequel that I’m starting to talk about a little. I don’t like to talk about things until they’re copy-edited, there’s a pubdate, and all that. But I’m very excited about it. I’ll finish it several more times before it’s published. But yes.
Oh wow. A prequel would be amazing because there’s so much about Joe’s origin story we don’t know — we really only get it in spotty pieces. Would you write more in the series after that?
I never say never. I have a few different ideas I’m working on.
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Lauren Daley is a freelance culture writer and regular Boston.com contributor. She can be reached at [email protected]. She tweets @laurendaley1, and Instagrams at @laurendaley1. Read more stories on Facebook here.
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